When I first decided to use an Ordo Xenos component of my army of Lamenters, I studied the rules very carefully and asked for some advice online about what you should take or not take.
The first thing which struck me, was how interesting the entire Demonhunters Codex was comparitively to the Witch hunters. It was almost as if somebody had slapped the WH codex together with a few bits and parts and some sisters stuff. I was rather taken however with the grey knights and their special rules and also the Inq forces in general.
A lot of people whine that the Inq have crap.... but I question that. Most people point at the humble Inq storm trooper and tell us he is hopeless. I am not so sure after some review. Lets compare vs other things that are just as viable.
Imperial Guard Vets
The humble Inq stormtrooper has a stat line which reads as like the Imperial Guard Vetran but a point less where? . They are both almost identical apart from yep... LD and Armor Save. Cool. The Inq stormtrooper BEGINS with a 4+ save, something that the guardsmen does not have. He also has a targeter allowing you to pre-measure the distance before shooting. This is all built into his 10 points. Not a bad effort when you consider that for a vetran squad similiarily equiped your paying 100 points and thats not with the ability to pre-measure a shot.
The Vetran comes with a lasgun. All fine. The Inq stormie comes with a hellgun. Same range and ability but with the 5+ AP. Although not a fantastic weapon, its still superior slightly to the IG vetran.
So after 100 points spent on a squad you have a vetran squad with a 4+ armor save and you have a sgt with leadership 8. With the Inq you have 4+ armor save and on top of that all your troops have a leadership of 8, not just a character.
Admitedly to get the Inq vetran sgt, your paying an extra but you gain access to the linq board for items... so what could you then do? Its an interesting idea.
Where this all falls down however, is as soon as you start looking at special weapons? Not always? Maybe... well for less points I can give the Inq stormies plasma guns, its more expensive to do it for the vetrans. But the vetrans can have 1 more weapon. But go back one step, and look at the Inq war gear for the same points.... I can give him a combi weapon and even the firepower here. I could give my Inq squad leader a melta bomb too... and retain my 4+ save. Something the guardsmen cant do ever.
I can already hear the cry of... but as soon as you put them in a Chimera..... and your right. Its the Chimera that will stop you every time. Thats what stops you, the inability to think Vetrans could be ok outside of their pill box. It stops me. BUT.... what if we look at this in a different fashion. The Inq stormies are scoring units... so are the vetrans, but who said that you need to take Vetrans always in a Chimera? Well it does make sense. But not always...
4 Chimeras are going to set you back 200 odd points for a Guard Vetran army.... I can get 4 more squads of scoring Stormtroopers for that.... are they as effective? Against a lot of opponents the answer is going to be yes, no matter what, unless your playing strict KP missions. 40 hell guns is a hell of a lot of firepower to bring down vs 4 multilasers with no AP and Heavy Bolter option or HF option. We have gotten into the habit of seeing the entire vetran squad as protectable, not what really matters which are the special weapons, thats what does the killing for the vets in 9 out of 10 firefights. Not the lasguns. So... if we think I can sustain 3 or 4 shots here from other infantry then all of a sudden you start to think that another 4 squads of strom troopers for 400 points vs 4 Chimeras for 420 is not such a bad investment, as your literally swamping your opponent with troops. Great for Objective missions.
What if we actually learnt to use terrain and cover as its meant to be instead of hiding in Chimera's perhaps the guard would be more inclined to field infantry type armies?
I am not debating how a Vetran squad is accepted practice or wisdom, but I do find it silly that a heap of people dis the poor Stormtrooper for what ammounts too..... not a bad little guy vs his IG counterparts in the Vetran area.
Monday, March 22, 2010
Tuesday, March 16, 2010
Lamenters Project Background Story
The Lamenters have always interested me as a Marine Chapter since I saw the picture of the yellow marine in my Warhammer 40k Compendium sometime in the late 80's. I read the story of the Badab Rebellion and loved the story and background. At that time in the fluff they were on a crusade to repent their crime of rebellion. I was fascinated and I loved the chapter symbol itself.
I honestly didn't think much more about them for years. My first army was Ultramarines, ye olde 8 man terminator box set, and the Lamenters idea was forgotten. As time went on, I stayed with the smurfs as I could not go past them. But whenever I would have a need to open the compendium I would see them and think wow.... yeah that would be cool to paint.
Fast Forward to 2010 and as a slightly older and less wise man, I need a new army to paint. ( My guard army which I will detail at another time is fun, but I still love the marines) Searching for some ideas I went in search of a rare Marine Chapter that I could love but also maintain my adherence to the Codex. (I have a hatred for the SW and BA that goes back ages... its always been a codex chapter I stick with). I then remembered the Lamenters....
I did some digging, there is really very little around on them. Its a shame, as they are such an interesting chapter. For those of you who haven't read the Fall of Malvolion short story I suggest you do. It describes the destruction of the Lamenters quite well. I keep coming back to the line 39 minutes... which after you have read it, will make some sense to you. I also loved the fact that it was a cursed chapter with some interesting things happening in the background.
So there I am, thinking how do I go about building this force.
I decided as I usually do, to go with something that I can compete with, but also is thematic. I read a lot of posts out there and lists with things about what people describe as a theme without it being really thematic at all.
So I did some work and decided to base a SM army (Lamenters) on the forces present at the Fall of Malvolion or forces that could have survived the destruction of the chapter itself.
I came up with the following 2k odd points of stuff I liked.
HQ
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain with a Jump Pack
Elites
Sternguard with a Razorback (I love the Razorback I think its one of the best SM type vehicles out there)
Terminators
Troops
Tactical Squads with Rhino's
Fast Attack
Assault Marines
Heavy Support
Devastators
Predators
The above is what I like myself from the Space Marine Codex. It might not all be the best stuff or even great for the metagame, but I liked it. I have a hatred for Vindicators as well.... so I don't use them and I really don't like SM bikes.
So my challenge now is to get it all and get it painted. I have started, but as I noted earlier I wanted a thematic list. So I decided to add some Ordo Xenos to the mix, as who else but the Ordo Xenos would be present defending the planet or helping against the Nids. I wanted something different, so I went digging about and found a unit of Karskins! perfect... Inq storm troopers! and with some more digging managed to find even some old Adeptus Arbites! Great! I now have the remains of a PDF force or judges for the planet too... with a nice Inq and some retinue figures, my Ordo Xenos component is now complete....
I honestly didn't think much more about them for years. My first army was Ultramarines, ye olde 8 man terminator box set, and the Lamenters idea was forgotten. As time went on, I stayed with the smurfs as I could not go past them. But whenever I would have a need to open the compendium I would see them and think wow.... yeah that would be cool to paint.
Fast Forward to 2010 and as a slightly older and less wise man, I need a new army to paint. ( My guard army which I will detail at another time is fun, but I still love the marines) Searching for some ideas I went in search of a rare Marine Chapter that I could love but also maintain my adherence to the Codex. (I have a hatred for the SW and BA that goes back ages... its always been a codex chapter I stick with). I then remembered the Lamenters....
I did some digging, there is really very little around on them. Its a shame, as they are such an interesting chapter. For those of you who haven't read the Fall of Malvolion short story I suggest you do. It describes the destruction of the Lamenters quite well. I keep coming back to the line 39 minutes... which after you have read it, will make some sense to you. I also loved the fact that it was a cursed chapter with some interesting things happening in the background.
So there I am, thinking how do I go about building this force.
I decided as I usually do, to go with something that I can compete with, but also is thematic. I read a lot of posts out there and lists with things about what people describe as a theme without it being really thematic at all.
So I did some work and decided to base a SM army (Lamenters) on the forces present at the Fall of Malvolion or forces that could have survived the destruction of the chapter itself.
I came up with the following 2k odd points of stuff I liked.
HQ
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain with a Jump Pack
Elites
Sternguard with a Razorback (I love the Razorback I think its one of the best SM type vehicles out there)
Terminators
Troops
Tactical Squads with Rhino's
Fast Attack
Assault Marines
Heavy Support
Devastators
Predators
The above is what I like myself from the Space Marine Codex. It might not all be the best stuff or even great for the metagame, but I liked it. I have a hatred for Vindicators as well.... so I don't use them and I really don't like SM bikes.
So my challenge now is to get it all and get it painted. I have started, but as I noted earlier I wanted a thematic list. So I decided to add some Ordo Xenos to the mix, as who else but the Ordo Xenos would be present defending the planet or helping against the Nids. I wanted something different, so I went digging about and found a unit of Karskins! perfect... Inq storm troopers! and with some more digging managed to find even some old Adeptus Arbites! Great! I now have the remains of a PDF force or judges for the planet too... with a nice Inq and some retinue figures, my Ordo Xenos component is now complete....
Pegasus Hobbies Kits and Additions
As I am currently building a large collection of terrain I hope to do a review of each of the Pegasus Hobbies products that I am currently purchasing and using to build my game board. My game board is planned to be a 6ft x 4ft area, so I am able to comfortably use it for Warhammer 40k and Warhammer.
My first idea was to use MDF as the base of the board, cut into three sections all 4ft x 2ft. This would allow me as I don't have a regular gaming room at this moment, to pack the board away. In the past every table I have had has been the 6ft x 4ft model and in the early days always painted green with green flock over the top, this of course was great if its kept set up... not so great when you have to stand it up and the flock keeps falling off. So therefore I have gone this time with the 6ft x4ft model but split into three parts.
I discovered Pegasus Hobbies by accident, when I was in the local Hobby Co here in Sydney and I saw their sandbags. At first I was unsure if they would be in the 28mm scale so I went home and did some comparisons first and tried to do some net searches.... One thing I found out is how much people will discuss things without giving the basic facts and information. So as I am sure somebody will get some use out of it, here goes.
1. Pegasus produce a few ranges of products or are associated with companies that do. Their product in the Mussuem Range, like the Gothic Building, Small Gothic Building, Trees, Sandbags, Fences, Barbed Wire and Techno bridge etc, are all perfect for 28mm heroic gaming.
2. The Pegasus Military Collection or Mussuem range is a great product, I have now collected quite a bit and can tell that its all pretty good stuff. The sandbags were all well painted, resin and quite heavy but great same with the Gothic Rubble. The ruins and boxed sets which I have gotten I am slowly assembling, it is a small pain to cut them all off the sprues, but its well worth the effort and they all are interchangeable, well the ruins and the gothic buildings are. The product also takes paint well too.
3. Pricing... go ebay the items and do a check of the prices, I picked up in total for less than 100 bucks. A gothic building large, 2 gothic ruins set1 buildings, 2 techno bridges, 1 barbed wire. I had to be careful on the postage from OS, but the above will allow me to build the basis for everything else I need in my terrain project.
I will post pics as I build my stuff, but so far am very impressed with Pegasus product, it also is a close match for the GW stuff.
My first idea was to use MDF as the base of the board, cut into three sections all 4ft x 2ft. This would allow me as I don't have a regular gaming room at this moment, to pack the board away. In the past every table I have had has been the 6ft x 4ft model and in the early days always painted green with green flock over the top, this of course was great if its kept set up... not so great when you have to stand it up and the flock keeps falling off. So therefore I have gone this time with the 6ft x4ft model but split into three parts.
I discovered Pegasus Hobbies by accident, when I was in the local Hobby Co here in Sydney and I saw their sandbags. At first I was unsure if they would be in the 28mm scale so I went home and did some comparisons first and tried to do some net searches.... One thing I found out is how much people will discuss things without giving the basic facts and information. So as I am sure somebody will get some use out of it, here goes.
1. Pegasus produce a few ranges of products or are associated with companies that do. Their product in the Mussuem Range, like the Gothic Building, Small Gothic Building, Trees, Sandbags, Fences, Barbed Wire and Techno bridge etc, are all perfect for 28mm heroic gaming.
2. The Pegasus Military Collection or Mussuem range is a great product, I have now collected quite a bit and can tell that its all pretty good stuff. The sandbags were all well painted, resin and quite heavy but great same with the Gothic Rubble. The ruins and boxed sets which I have gotten I am slowly assembling, it is a small pain to cut them all off the sprues, but its well worth the effort and they all are interchangeable, well the ruins and the gothic buildings are. The product also takes paint well too.
3. Pricing... go ebay the items and do a check of the prices, I picked up in total for less than 100 bucks. A gothic building large, 2 gothic ruins set1 buildings, 2 techno bridges, 1 barbed wire. I had to be careful on the postage from OS, but the above will allow me to build the basis for everything else I need in my terrain project.
I will post pics as I build my stuff, but so far am very impressed with Pegasus product, it also is a close match for the GW stuff.
Blog Intro and Hello
I have never really wanted to do a blog before, but as I find myself more and more becoming embroiled in the 40k and Warhammer Fantasy scene again, I have decided to map my progress and its various projects as they come to pass.
At the moment I am working on four different projects.
A Lamenters/Lamentors Space Marine Army with Inq allies f0r 40k. This is my showcase army.
An Imperial Guard Army, based off the Egypt campaigns of the British Empire circa 1880-1889.
Terrain and features for a game board, both Fantasy and 40k.
Empire Army for Warhammer Fantasy, based off the old Elector region of Sylvannia before its fall into darkness at the hands of the Vampire Counts.
I hope to write as many reviews as possible as well on the project and bits and parts that I use and the various websites and things that I pick up along the way. I am a regular poster under the name Alexious on Heresy Online too. :) I will also make comments about codexes and other armies that I come across or any tournament level play that I get into.
Please feel free to comment and leave a note if you play and your in Sydney or NSW. Always looking for new opponents!
At the moment I am working on four different projects.
A Lamenters/Lamentors Space Marine Army with Inq allies f0r 40k. This is my showcase army.
An Imperial Guard Army, based off the Egypt campaigns of the British Empire circa 1880-1889.
Terrain and features for a game board, both Fantasy and 40k.
Empire Army for Warhammer Fantasy, based off the old Elector region of Sylvannia before its fall into darkness at the hands of the Vampire Counts.
I hope to write as many reviews as possible as well on the project and bits and parts that I use and the various websites and things that I pick up along the way. I am a regular poster under the name Alexious on Heresy Online too. :) I will also make comments about codexes and other armies that I come across or any tournament level play that I get into.
Please feel free to comment and leave a note if you play and your in Sydney or NSW. Always looking for new opponents!
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